Finished JMG Reading

I have just finished the Jedediah Grant biography. I was surprised that prior to reading the book I had not previously known anything about Jeddy Grant. His life was an interesting insight into what it meant to be a Latter Day Saint during the early years of the Mormon Church. I was also fascinated to hear about the reformation that took place under Grant's direction and the fact that Saints were rebaptized. I had never heard anything of the reformation and its implications before reading this text. Jedediah Grant was an intriguing figure in the history of the Church. His dedication and commitment to his religion and all that he accomplished were inspiring to read about.

Revival

I had no idea that the saints had ever been told to repent and then be rebabtized and confirmed in chapt. 16. What was it that had set Jeddy off on his rants of cleanliness both in spirituality and outward appearances? Since he had been a missionary in the beginning of the church I am surprised at his lack of compassion for the gentiles in Utah. Why didn't he just try and convert everyone?

What a Hard Life

I have to admire the pioneers for just hanging in there. I have learned so much more about church history just from reading the book. I have even managed to impress people with my new found knowledge. It makes me thankful for all the sacrifices that were made so I could have it so easy today. I'm glad our trek is in an air-conditioned bus. Can't wait for the trek.

re: Polygamy question

There have been many opinions expressed regarding why polygamy/plural marriage was practiced among a few members of the LDS Church during the 1800's. These opinions include the idea that it was a commandment, it was part of the necessary restoration of the Gospel, the need to support women who joined the Church, etc. There is a statement on the LDS Church's official website (lds.org) regarding polygamy. It is found in the Newsroom section.

It seems that specific reasons for the practice were not given. People who profess a religious faith must accept the fact that some things are to be taken on faith. This is one reason why belief in an afterlife is so valuable. Someday, I think we'll have the answers.

Polygamy

I was under the impression that polygamy was because it was only a commandment, but on p. 118, second to the last paragraph, of Mormon Thunder it mentions that polygamy was partly because women out numbered the men. Is there anyone else that had a question about this?

Teaching with a blank slate

When reading about Jedediah's ability to get up and teach from a blank slate really put into perspective what giving a talk in church is about now days. I was given a subject, have the churches website, magazines, etc. He just went with what he had at the time, which was probably his scriptures. He could talk for hours on one subject and have people riveted to the talk. It is hard sometimes to talk for twenty minutes or so. It talked about this on pgs. 32 -34 of Mormon Thunder. I really wish that I had that ability, or even the faith to do this.

Great Book

I love history in most forms. I enjoy biographies and historical fiction immensly. I have really liked reading this book (except for the hard journal entries due to the poor spelling). I can hardly wait to get out into Wyoming.

Jeddy Grant

As I have read this book it really has struck a new conviction to my membership in the LDS Church. I had to give a talk in Sacrament meeting this past week on following the Prophet. I took my talk from President Ezra Taft Benson's talk in 1981 and Fourteen Fundamentals in Following the Prophet. As I prepared my talk I really thought about the talks that Jeddy Grant gave to the people. I could tell that he loved the people yet he loved the Lord more and wanted the people to find that same love and devotion. I look at President Benson as being the same way.

I really could tell that Jedediah was a great speaker and teacher. Being this, he was also influential. It struck me funny when, at the beginning of the book, he was able to tell Brigham Young to come down from working on his house and that was not a proper thing for a prophet of God to do, and Brigham came down.

I can not believe how busy he must have been throughout his life. I have a hard time keeping up with six kids and taking care of my family and one wife, much less having to take care of three or more families, farming, being the Mayor of Salt Lake City, plus being in the First Presidency with Brigham Young. There had to never have a been a dull moment.

Reading History

I think one of the best ways to learn about history is to read biographies from the time period. They seem to give a more personalized view than reading most dry-as-dust textbooks. Someone mentioned that they wanted to read bios of Joseph Smith and Brigham Young. I recommend "Rough Stone Rolling," by Bushman if you are interested in reading about Joseph Smith. It's excellent.

Reading good historical fiction can also be instructive. I just checked "Killer Angels" out of the library. This book was recommended by David McCullough as an excellent book about the Civil War time period. I look forward to reading it - maybe there will be some time now that school is out. (But I have found that the days fill right up with other projects during the summer break!)

Mormon Thunder

I am really enjoying this book. I am amazed at the devotion Jedediah M. Grant had for his religion. He had strong desires to be a missionary and devote his life to his religion.

Starting the next book

As school starts to wind down, I know that you have a lot going on.  Please finish up your reading of Mormon Thunder, so that you will be on target to start the Emigrant's Guide.  Remember that posts will go to Dr. Sessions for verification of your participation and effort for credit.

A couple of my own personal observations from the text:  I am awed by Grant's commitment to missionary efforts.  He relies on the generosity of others for shelter, food, and, in many cases, transportation.  I am of the opinion that this would not happen today in America.  Some other countries, perhaps, but not in most of America.  I think what we see in his writings is a self-improved man.  I assume that he had very little formal education, but as he read and studied his skills grew with him.  As teachers this shows us the value of having our own students consistently read and write.  This practice certainly will bring about understanding and improvement.  Having just lost my own son, I can relate to Grant's pain and anguish in the death of his wife and daughter while crossing the plains.  It is sorrow like I have never known. I am grateful for the support system that I have with my church.  Likewise, I think Grant had a large support system to help him through those terribly difficult times.  I loved the statement on page 181 - "If I wished to find the best men in the world, I should go to Zion to find them; if I wished to find the biggest devil, I would look in Zion for him..." The passage of time doesn't erase some things.  I hope that you are all doing well with the assignments.  Happy reading.      

Finished the Book

I finished the book this past week. It has been very insightful. I was saddened by his early death about 40 years old. I found it very interesting the way that many close to grant claimed he went including himself. Brigham Young claimed he was a martyr. He himself said that he was the devils and that they were trying to take his life. I don't have the book in front of me, but there was another gentleman on a mission that had a dream about Grant fighting devils and holding them off at this exact same time. In this dream the devils finally overtook him. A few days later this gentleman recieved word that Grant had died and he took the news almost as bad as when the prophet Joseph died. I really liked his vision of the afterlife and coming and back from the dead. What an interesting account. This guy was as tough as they come. He was willing to stand up for what he believed in no mater who or what he was facing. He had a great mind and could have become very wealthy as a lawyer no doubt. His abilitly to speak and reason were amazing. My eyes have been opened by reading this book. I know want to read a biography about Brigham Young and Joseph Smith. There is so much more to learn and grapple with.

HELP!!

I'm planning on coming up from Cedar City for the meeting with David McCoullough. This is required, right? I haven't heard anything from the Foundation about this. Can someone please clue me in as to where, when, and what we're supposed to do?? Are we meeting in a specific place? I'm a little nervous...

Incomplete Post - Sorry

I realized that my previous post wasn't very complete. Sorry about that. Yes, the lecture is at the Tabernacle on Temple Square. It begins at 10 a.m., but the ticket says to be seated no later than 9:45 a.m. Tickets are at www.lds.org/events. There is probably a phone number to obtain tickets, also - perhaps it is the Conference Center ticket office. (They ticket all of the Temple Square events over there). Since time is getting short, I don't know if mailed tickets would arrive in time. Maybe they have Will Call (?)

re: David McCullough

I found out quite by accident that the event had been moved. I thought we were supposed to have tickets reserved for us, but since we haven't heard anything, I got my own ticket. Go to lds.org/events and order a ticket through the Temple Square ticket office.

I thought I read that the seminar we were to attend this weekend

With David Mcoullugh(sp sorry) had been moved to the tabernacle. Is that right? Also how do we get tickets does anyone know? Thanks Jan

The Kinder side of Grant

I was really impressed this last weekend when I was reading about a story about the handcart immigrants coming into the valley. I guess their was a young man or boy ( I don't have my notes in front of me right now) who came into the valley with hardly anything, as many of these handcart comapanies did. They had such high hopes of coming to zion of this great and wonderful societ. When he got up that first morning he didn't have any food to eat for breakfast and he went out looking for work. He chopped wood and did odd jobs for a store keeper for a couple of hours. After a while the store keeper came out and told him that he decided that he didn't have any more work for him and that he couldn't pay him and sent him on his way. Can you imagine how disillusioned this young man must have been. He had traveled half way around the world from England to come to a land that was supposed to be better and the people were supposed to be living better and then to be treated like he was. He kept on knocking doors looking for work and didn't know whose doors he was knocking on. He knocked on Grant's home and Grant put him to work and upon hearing the boys earlier experience fed him and was very upset with the whole incident. He allowed the boy to work for another couple of weeks and payed him with food for his family. I looked at this story and realized that Grant was much more than the fiery preacher. He could speak with immense power and come across as a bit intolerant, but he really did live his religion. He loved it and loved the people despite what some of his talks may have painted him out to look like. He definetely had a kind soft side also.

With Sympathy

I'm sure that all Mormon Trail Seminar participants join me in sending our deepest sympathy to Tim Strebel on the untimely death of his son, Blake, this past week. Blake was a student at Weber State University. Tim, we wish you the best during this difficult time.

Emigrants' Guide

I have been reading the Emigrants' Guide book. I think this book will be most useful in a classroom setting for the photographs it contains. The text seems a bit scattered now, but hopefully it will mean more when we get "on site." We recently studied the Transcontinental Railroad in my Westward Expansion unit, so I was rather interested in the railroad stuff on pages 57-60. I knew that some Mormons worked on the railroad, but didn't know that this particular work crew was replaced by the Irish, and then reinstated to complete the job. I have passed the sign on I-80 for Wasatch near Evanston many times, but didn't realize that it was the site of an old railroad town. I don't think I've ever gone through Echo Canyon and up the road to Evanston without seeing trains, so all of the railroad stuff is interesting. I will look at that route with more appreciation from now on. I also was unaware that there were many "registers of the desert" where the emigrants recorded their names. I know that Independence Rock is famous for names. Apparently the Cache Cave also is.

If anyone wants an additional book recommendation, I've been reading Trail of Hope by Slaughter and Landon. This is the book that was published to accompany the PBS documentary about the Mormon Trail. The photos of trail artifacts are worth the (free) price of checking out the book from the library. The book is fascinating, and has a lot of specific trail information. My next search will be to see if the documentary is still available. It dates back to about 1997, the time of the 150th anniversary of the vanguard company. It would also be interesting to see William Clayton's journal. He is quoted extensively in most other books about the trail.

Mormon Thunder

I read a lot this last weekend. This Jedediah is a very interesting character. I can only wish to have the faith that he had. It is amazing how much things have changed since this time. I served as a missionary and while reading this contemplated how things might be different if you did this later on in life. I know that my wife's grandfather served a mission after he was married. I love the families conversion stories and the Zion's camp incident. Jedediah is an amazing speaker. I wish I could be more that way. I love his no script incident with the preacher and other important people.

There are several things that I would like to know more about after reading this book. Obviously we don't practice polygamy anymore. Jedediah has some pretty strong statements about commitment to the Lord. One that I had questions about was the idea of Joseph Smith asking the men to give them their wives hands in marriage. I had read something similiar in a few other times, but polygamy isn't talked about anymore atleast in the church very much. That would be quite a sacrifice. This idea of blood atonement that he expounds on is a little frightening to me also. He says that he believes that the apostates should be killed to save themselves from their sins. Yikes! I know that the Bible talks about many of these ideas. You look at the Old Testament and stoning people was common practice. I need some more time to absorb all of this. There is a lot of history I would like to know more about now. I would also like to know more about the time period right after Joseph Smith's death.

Reading Response

I hope that I can meet Jedediah (Jeddy) many years from now. I love his strong convictions to the gospel. I was so surprised that he was alone preaching the gospel so much. Now days you have to have a companion with you at all times. When I read about Charles Bird, I was so delighted because he is my distant relative. Then my husband had me look up James Allred and he was included in the sketches but not in the book(that is his relative). I love reading about the history and can't wait for the fieldtrip.

Response to Readings

I've started chapter 3 and find it very interesting that Jeddy would spend so much time in the mission field and not feel a need to go home. He does spend time with relatives in New York, etc. I guess that helps. Being a convert myself, I know the driving desire to learn as much about the gospel as possible. As a parent I wonder how his parents felt with him gone so much. Having 3 sons I know I miss them terribly when they are gone and have a hard time not seeing them frequently. I understand that times are different but love is still the same. The pioneers were extraordinary people.

Response to Kim

In response to Kim's comments, I think the way missions are handled has changed dramatically since the 1800's. I don't think their way of sending the men on missions for years and years would work too well in our day and age. I really admire not only the men for dedicating so much of their lives to preaching, but also the women who stayed home and took care of everything else - earning money, keeping the farm, keeping house, and raising all of the kids. Maybe in that sense, some of the polygamous families provided an extra support system for the women while their husbands were away. Many people probably aren't aware that after World War II, some men were called on missions after they were married. Their wives stayed home and earned money to support them. This happened with my parents; my dad had been in the war for years, and decided later on to serve a mission after his marriage. This, of course, doesn't happen any more. Some practices have to evolve with changing times.

Feelin the Thunder

I'm loving learning more about the early Church history from the perspective of Jedediah (Jeddy) Grant. I am friends with some of his descendants and I can see characteristics of him in them. As the mother of a 19 year old, I'm amazed at his dedication to the preaching of the Gospel and how he loved being out proselyting more than he wanted to be home. Personally, I find it a little strange. I wonder at how our world has changed in the nearly 200 years. Or has it? I know we send out 19 year old boys to preach the gospel, but when Jeddy was doing it, he wasn't necessarily specifically called nor was it a "rule" that 19 year old boys serve missions, and such long ones at that. I wonder about the role a female will play in his life. I look forward to reading more and finding out.

This is all new to me.

Outside of posting on KSL.com, I don't make posts. I have joined and ready to go. I have been reading Mormon Thunder, and I am excited to read more. I really like this kind of book. It is very interesting, and easy to read. The only problem with this whole seminar is that we have to wait until the end of July. I want to go now.

Is There a Thread Here?

J.M. Grant gave a speech (quoted on p. 205) that has a familiar theme. He told the people to be happy and accept things as they were. This theme is similar to two messages given in last October's LDS general conference - one by Elder Joseph B. Wirthlin and one by Pres. Thomas S. Monson. The modern versions are available for perusal on lds.org. I was trying to decide whether there were any modern-day equivalents to the barn-burning discourses given by Pres. Grant in his day. I think today's LDS leaders try to be a bit more gentle in their approach. One person in today's church leadership who can be rather direct is Elder Dallin H. Oaks. He doesn't beat around the bush, either. (But I do like his talks).

Mormon Thunder

I've learned quite a few new things from the reading I have done so far. I was quite riveted on the chapter (Chapter 6) that talks in some depth about one of my ancestors - Joseph Bates Noble. That was pretty interesting. I had read the story years ago about the wolves, but had forgotten about it. I was glad (and sad) to be reminded.

I just read the first chapter of Mormon Thunder this weekend. Really interesting book. It is much easier than I though. I will get my picture up as soon as I can. I loved the stories.

Mormon Thunder

This book is written by Dr. Gene Sessions, our director on this seminar.  You will receive it on Saturday.  I will explain the requirements for reading and posting at that time.

How fun!!

What a great way to keep in touch and share ideas. Thanks. Liz

Up and Ready to go

Tim, here is your blog and you are up and running.